In this conversation, my friend Scott Harris shares his journey of faith, discussing his upbringing in a mainline Protestant church, his college experiences, and his perspective on the challenges faced by the church today after 42 years in parachurch ministry. He emphasizes the importance of following Jesus and articulating the gospel in a way that resonates with contemporary issues. The discussion also touches on the need for the church to adapt and address the concerns of those leaving it, while promoting a message of love for God and neighbor.
Scott mentions reading C.S. Lewis’ Mere Christianity as he was making his faith his own as a young man, we talk about our Clifton StrengthsFinder results and Enneagram numbers. and Scott recommends the book Kingdom Come: How Jesus Wants to Change the World by Allen M. Wakabayashi (available here). I’ve purchased a copy and look forward to reading it in the new year!
You can watch this episode on YouTube or listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, and more!
Transcript:
Ruth Perry (00:15)
I would love to just know more about my friend Scott that I’ve been in Bible studies with online and I’ve met online, but we’ve never met in person. And I know little things about your life, but I don’t know the Scott Harris story and what your testimony is.
Scott Harris (00:23)
I’ve been around a long time. I guess you had mentioned, knowing a little bit about my background, I think I’ll summarize and say that I grew up in Northern Illinois in a family attending a mainline Protestant church, a believing mother, a non-believing father, both of whom were from Texas. So I have heritage in more than one part of the country.
To go further ahead, when I was in high school, my family moved to Indiana where the state that I currently live in, and we began attending a mainline Presbyterian church, but not just any mainline Presbyterian church, a church where there was a desire to help people, younger and older to make personal decisions to belong to Jesus. That wasn’t the terminology they used, but it was a call for me and all kinds of others. So high school age, it was a call for me and lots of others to make specific decisions. I found that very difficult. of the difficulties I had was understanding evangelical jargon because I was told, all you have to, in fact I think I’m quoting my brother, all you have to do is accept Jesus into your heart. For people with some kinds of church backgrounds that make sense, for others it doesn’t mean very much, it’s just an odd collection of words together. I struggled for some time to figure out what that meant.
A pastor recommended, since I was asking questions, to read C.S. Lewis’s Mere Christianity. I kind of read through that during my senior year in high school. That wasn’t the only factor, but a number of factors came together that I found myself coming to some kind of faith about the time I entered high school. I entered college as a heartfelt Christian and sought to grow as a Christian from there. Am I telling you information you want to know, Ruth?
Ruth Perry (02:38)
Yes, this is, I personally want to know. Now I’m thinking, I grew up more conservative and I’m kind of curious to know the way that mainline Protestants were spoken of or thought of in my experience is that you don’t even believe in Jesus Christ as a supernatural God being. And so in your experience, was your mainline faith orthodox? I think there’s so many biases among the more conservative minded that I’ve had to undo myself, but that’s like an initial question that I have.
Scott Harris (03:14)
First of all, to be fair, I’m not a master of mainline Protestantism, but of course we need to recognize that it is very diverse. in any individual mainline Protestant church of any size, you have a diverse congregation of people with differing levels, maybe of orthodoxy, if we want to use that word. It’s nonetheless unfair to just…
gather a little bit of data together to judge people’s orthodoxy. You can’t judge orthodoxy by litmus tests. I think also leadership of mainline Protestant churches come from variety of backgrounds and they study at a variety of seminaries and so you can’t put all of them in one category. And then there are the different denominations.
Okay, the church I grew up in childhood, which I’m calling a mainline Protestant church in northern Illinois, I was of an age that I don’t remember many things by which I can determine just how orthodox they were or not. I’m sure it was a variety of people from a variety of backgrounds. It was when my family moved to Indiana that I would say the mainline Presbyterian Church staff was quite orthodox. They believed in God. They believed in Jesus. If you wanted to use the jargon as Lord and Savior. And it was clear over and over again and it was a priority of their youth program not to give altar calls, not to put pressure on, but to make it clear again and again that it was a personal decision that we needed to make. So it was evangelistic in that sense. So I can neither confirm nor deny conservative churches’ of mainline Protestantism. There is a diversity in it.
Ruth Perry (04:59)
I think that’s very true because I’ve just been working in the United Methodist Church now for a couple years. And I think it’s been a little surprising for me just to see how conservative the people, like they’re so evangelical. And so that’s been surprising. It’s also been surprising to me how many people have moved to the United Methodist Church from other denominations that are serving in ministry, as you said. And so culturally it’s interesting to me how strong evangelicalism’s influence has been in the mainline church.
Scott Harris (05:23)
Yeah. Yeah, and for moving to Indiana and beginning to do full-time ministry in Indiana, it became very clear, at least in my part of the state, that the United Methodist Church was highly evangelical in its leadership and in its membership. I worked at a university that had a lot of people coming from rural areas, and those rural Methodist churches were rather conservative in a number of ways. Other places in the state it might be different and other parts of Methodism of course are different.
Ruth Perry (06:04)
That sounds really wonderful that you were encouraged to make your faith your own and that you went to college as a strong believer because I know in your work I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of students haven’t had that kind of formation. So that’s wonderful.
Scott Harris (06:19)
Yes. So I entered a small liberal arts college. lived in a fraternity only because it was an all-male college and listeners of this podcast will be able to figure out what college it was. I’m very glad to have attended it. I found myself really valuing what I would call Christian fellowship at the time. Interdenominational connections with people from a variety of church backgrounds that wanted to encourage each other in knowing God, knowing the Bible, and following the ways that God directs us through the Bible.
I don’t think I would have used those terms at the time, but that was a very rich experience for me, and because I desired it so much, I created a lot of it, or I catalyzed a lot of it. I was somebody who found Christians around campus in my fraternity and other fraternities that were interested in meeting together. And I was not the first person to do this, but under some of my leadership, we got an actual campus organization functioning that functioned as an ongoing organization my third and fourth years in college.
Ruth Perry (07:33)
Fantastic. What would you call that gift? I know you have it. I mean, is it hospitality?
Scott Harris (07:38)
I would not say I’m gifted in hospitality. I would call it networking. Some people who are like me who have done the Clifton Strengths Finder test rate high in Connectedness, if anybody is aware of that. So you and I are similar in that sense. That has driven me in a lot of ways before I had a label on it, but I’ve always called myself a networker.
Ruth Perry (07:52)
I rated high on Connectedness. What are your other Clifton strengths?
Scott Harris (08:05)
My goodness, what an excellent question. I don’t remember the specifics of the top five or whatever. I took the test twice and Connectedness rated first both times. That’s why I labeled as number one. Four out of the five were exactly the same in each one. And the other three of the top four, even though I don’t remember their names, if you put them all together, it means I have a very easy tendency to be a smart aleck. I have a very easy tendency to want to learn things and tell other people things that I learned. It’s, I guess Communication is one of them, which is basically oral communication in the StrengthsFinder. Another one has to do with Learning. So I like to learn and I like to communicate what I learn and I’m talkative and I’m long-winded and I’m an external processor. It all measures up in my top strengths of the StrengthsFinder.
Ruth Perry (09:04)
Did you ever look into the Enneagram and what your number is there?
Scott Harris (09:08)
Yes, my wife has been helped a lot by the Enneagram. Lots of colleagues of mine are. I don’t know many things about it, but I do recognize that I align as a nine. I don’t know whether I’m a eight wing or a one wing, but I recognize nine-ness.
Ruth Perry (09:28)
Cool. Well that’s beautiful. Now I’m thinking about what are the other things? There’s the DISC. Have you done that? What else?
Scott Harris (09:34)
I don’t remember DISC and Myers-Briggs, if you want to go back in time, my Myers-Briggs has changed over time. I think it’s changed in part because I’ve done the same kind of work for 42 years and my personality has adapted to it. I don’t think Myers-Briggs is supposed to be like that, but when I first took it, I was kind of close
to the border between introvert and extrovert, but now I’m a massive extrovert in various ways because it’s been, it’s useful for my work to function as an extrovert. Has that rewired my brain? I don’t know, but unfortunately for this conversation, I don’t remember where I rate them the three other categories.
Ruth Perry (10:19)
Does your social battery ever dry up?
Scott Harris (10:22)
I’m of a certain age and I admit that the older I get, less capacity my social battery has. And maybe that’s just physical fatigue. I get energized by people, but I also get tired out by people things and I do have a desire to retreat. Maybe that’s made me a more healthy, balanced person. I don’t know.
Ruth Perry (10:33)
Yeah. So as a college person, you had made your faith your own. You were already exercising your gifts and bringing others into a community with you to have fellowship and grow and learn together. That’s all very cool. How would you describe your faith at that time, like with theological terms, like were you Arminian or Calvinist or?
Scott Harris (11:05)
Okay, these are very good questions and I can kind of say none of the above to that kind of thing. Let me give a more satisfying answer by saying the non-denominationality or the inter-denominationality of the organization I was with and still am and the influences I came under and the reading, the little bit of reading I did did not focus me or cornering me into very many specific categories. So I was neither trained to be Calvinist nor Armenian. If you want to talk about categories, you know, decades into the work, you can throw the category of Anabaptism as something that kind of slowly has grown and it’s influence over me.
In the evangelical world that I was in, dispensationalism is something that is kind of a default setting for lots of people in some areas of theology. I have grown, I never was particularly dispensationalist and now I’m very non-dispensationalist with time. And I think in my work I have chosen to not align myself in very many specific ways with doctrinal movements.
I do have a little master’s degree in biblical and theological studies and a master of arts degree, but it was at an institution that did not try to train me in any doctrinal settings. So I still am quite non-denominational.
Ruth Perry (12:39)
That’s great.
Scott Harris (12:39)
Although that’s in my thinking and in my theology, I do value belonging to denominations, but working with Christians from a variety of backgrounds, I love working in a non-denominational organization.
Ruth Perry (12:54)
How would you describe…Do you feel like, I think a lot of people are drawn out of denominations right now because of our, like we’re distrustful of institutions. We recognize that one institution hasn’t figured it all out. And so we want to be more open. How do you feel about denominations that kind of plant seemingly non-denominational churches, but they’re rooted in a deep, point of view.
Scott Harris (13:20)
Yeah, I don’t have a lot of opinions on this, but it is a very good question. I will briefly say that I value not getting too specific in what you require of members of an organization. I also value very specific theological education and thought and study for leaders. Those might be kind of paradoxical, but
It’s what I think. One of the things I value most about denominations is what I guess I would call accountability. In a denominator, even though there are different structures of polity in denominations, ultimately you are responsible to some kind of leadership within your denomination and you can be held accountable. And I guess a few years ago, I may not have recognized that value of denominations, but because of so much harm, and I guess I would say leadership abuse coming from the non-denominational world, it gives me a rising value of denominational accountability, even though I’ve never been a part of it. I’ve thought about getting licensed, I’ve never really thought about getting ordained, different denominations do it in different ways. It might be something I would do in the future, but I’ve never been a regular preacher or teacher or overseer of theological discourse. So at this point in time I haven’t sought to align myself with a denomination. I do go to a denominational church.
Ruth Perry (14:52)
So how did you and your wife meet?
Scott Harris (14:53)
What a good question. I was a few years into my doing college ministry and she was actually one of the students who became a leader student in the student group. And as is really good conventional wisdom, staff members working with college ministry should not date or fraternize or whatever you want to call it with members of the group, age difference.
Power Differential, I actually went to work overseas and after a few years of overseas work with her being one of the people I kept in contact with, I found, I guess you’d call it romantic feelings growing. And so after I was overseas for a while and after she had finished college for a while, we brought up the topic of maybe starting today.
It was interesting because this took place overseas. This conversation took place in the suburbs of Paris, France. And we began, she was just visiting there and we got together because she knew me. She was visiting with a friend. And we began a long distance relationship kind of knowing the advantages and disadvantages of them to some degree and this is so far back in time That long distance phone calls were quite expensive We did write some letters, but the most satisfying communication we had as a long distance dating couple was to record and send audio cassette tapes in the mail to each other
Ruth Perry (16:23)
Yeah. How cute is that?
Scott Harris (16:36)
We, very cute, I confirm. We actually have some of the cassettes recorded over. We have a handful of those cassettes in a Ziploc bag and some stuff we’ve stored away. And our adult daughter, young adult daughter, has actually listened to some of them and takes great joy in listening to us. We don’t just say gooey romantic things to each other. We’re giving updates on what’s going on in our lives.
Ruth Perry (16:46)
Yeah. Yeah!
Scott Harris (17:03)
And so she gets a glimpse into the past of her parents.
Ruth Perry (17:07)
That’s beautiful. So you’ve been in ministry for 42 years.
Scott Harris (17:11)
Correct.
Ruth Perry (17:12)
And I, one of my, I think one of the driving forces behind me wanting to podcast is just the sheer number of people who’ve left the church in the last several decades. And so this is what I want to address with my podcast is how can we address the issues that are driving people out of the church.
And what can we do to build a more beautiful kingdom in the United States, particularly as my location, but in the world, obviously. I feel like it’s not just the issues that we’re having here in America are in some ways very unique to our situation, but they’re also leaking out into the world in harmful ways. And that…
Scott Harris (17:52)
Hmm.
Ruth Perry (17:53)
I think that’s something that I really appreciated about our friendship. I’m not sure exactly how we got connected, but I’ve made all these little connections on the internet. And with someone with your giftings, I could see how I know that you invited me into a book study that you were doing with some of your Facebook friends. But I’m assuming that we became Facebook friends because of the Beautiful Kingdom Builders page, that maybe that’s our initial connection was.
Scott Harris (18:20)
a networker, as a networker, undoubtedly a friend of mine had posted something from it I wouldn’t be able to say and I began to follow and like what I found there. That’s undoubtedly the beginning of
Ruth Perry (18:20)
I comment, what’s that? As a networker.
Well now I have really appreciated your friendship Scott because what is the thing that you say when you post things? You always share things and you say, this challenges me to follow Jesus Christ. ⁓ Let me see, do you know it off the top of your head what you say?
Scott Harris (18:49)
Yes. I have lengthened it recently, but the older version is this challenges me to follow Jesus and his ways fully above all else, including many things many Christians consider important.
Ruth Perry (19:09)
And then you’ll share a quote or an article or something newsworthy that’s happening. ⁓
Scott Harris (19:17)
or something from
the beautiful Kingdom Builders.
Ruth Perry (19:20)
Well, actually half of the things that I post on my page now come from your posts because I’m just I’m very by the things that challenge you Scott
Scott Harris (19:25)
I have noticed that. Gives me great joy.
Ruth Perry (19:30)
So I’m very grateful for your friendship and for your work that you share online and that you connect and serve and fellowship online as well as in person. And I feel like you’re someone, your heart is seeking after the Lord in beautiful ways and impactful ways. And that’s the kind of person that I want to learn from and I want to be in relationship with and grow with.
And so thank you for all you’ve done. You’ve connected me in Bible studies and book studies too that have helped me get off the internet but stay on the internet in relationship with others and hear from others. And I’m really grateful for you, Scott.
What do you think it is that the church, how has the church gotten off track in a way that is distancing young people from the church?
Scott Harris (20:19)
of course, so many things to say about that. First of all, thank you for your very kind words. likewise for so much that I learned from you as well. Let me answer your question. Let me answer it first by how I feel like I’ve gotten off track a little bit. You were interested in my story and it’s just the story that serious Christian faith during my time in high school became attractive to me because I felt like it was a true understanding of the world.
The word worldview is used by variety of groups to mean a variety of things, but at that time I felt like a properly understood whole Bible worldview helped explain things and help explain what God calls people to. Although I’m using that term whole Bible at this point because at that time I think it was basically Paul’s writings and the logic and the priorities and the emphases and it was kind of the traditional evangelical gospel outline of we are sinners, Jesus died for us, we must respond to Jesus dying for us, etc. that… For much of my Christian life, I have thought that the main thing that a Christian is, is somebody who believes in what…
has done for them. And that is definitely part of it. I wasn’t particularly off track to think that way. I was following the movement I was in. I affirm all of that. However, I think the basic thing that it means to be a Christian at this point in time is to follow Jesus and his ways fully above all else.
Following Jesus includes believing in who Jesus is. Following Jesus includes believing in what Jesus has done. But believing becomes a much bigger whole life kind of thing that it involves. Following Jesus as my example, following Jesus as my master, becoming an apprentice of Jesus. I haven’t…
been regularly using these terms for too many years and when I use these terms I realize just what a high calling it is and how much further I have to go and how it is a challenging life of constantly calling oneself into question and revising and asking for God’s help and the help of the Holy Spirit to step forward in ways that more more followed Jesus.
To answer the question you asked. I think a number of people are leaving the church in part, I’m not speaking for all people or all churches, in part because they have been taught to add a whole lot of baggage to following Jesus. The baggage is different in different situations. In recent years in the United States, a lot of the baggage is political baggage or culture wars baggage. Of course, there’s a big overlap between politics and culture wars or the baggage of narrow approaches to how children are raised or how people should be educated or how people should think.
When so much of the New Testament emphasis of following Jesus in the Gospels and in the New Testament writers is really about freedom, is about joy, is about following a person who announces and enacts and acts out the Kingdom of God. And so more and more in the future I’m gonna want to emphasize following Jesus as a living in the Kingdom of God kind of thing. I am not saying that if people just say things and think things the way I do that they would remain in churches.
But whatever going into and out of churches are, whatever the patterns are, whatever individuals or groups or demographic categories are going in and out of churches, I think part of the turmoil that’s going on should be a call to those of us who are leaders and those of us who are regular Christians to call people to Jesus, not to a tradition.
Not to a certain political ideology, not to a framework structure of how to raise children, but call people to Jesus above all else. And that’s a dynamic, ever-changing, challenging life that nonetheless is a life of joy.
Ruth Perry (25:03)
Absolutely. Well said, Scott.
Scott Harris (25:05)
Yeah, that just hopefully I’ve just fixed everybody who’s listening. So they can just think like me.
Ruth Perry (25:09)
Yeah. You fixed me.
Scott Harris (25:11)
I think a lot of people leaving the church are rejecting baggage that is accompanied being followers of Jesus. They may be back, they may be in the future, they may change churches, but what do we do with such people? Winsomely invite them to follow Jesus and encourage them to take thoughtful steps that they decide on with their lives, living up to the expectations of Jesus, not trying to live up to the expectations of other people.
Ruth Perry (25:39)
How do you articulate the gospel, Scott?
Scott Harris (25:42)
Such a good question. At this point, let me say my thinking about how I articulate the Gospel is changing and I’ll give a book plug. There’s a book written over 20 years ago. You’ve probably seen me post about it, Ruth. It is the book Kingdom Come by Alan Wakabayashi.
I had heard about it years ago, I was living overseas, I wasn’t necessarily reading what everybody was reading. I had repeatedly decided that I need to read that book someday. And what happened is I noticed that it was for sale for cheap on Kindle. And so even though some people avoid Kindle, Kindle gets me reading stuff because it keeps my place and it’s right there.
I have read it on Kindle and Alan Wakabayashi does, in the middle of the book, give kind of a gospel outline in terms of kingdom thinking. I have copied and pasted. I intend to work on it. I wonder if any friends of mine who do graphics might want to put some graphics to it. So here is an unpolished summary of some of it. It is more detailed than a lot of gospel outlines are. But Jesus came to inaugurate the Kingdom of God. He calls people to walk with Him in it. He brings them deliverance from evil and from the powers that keep people from walking in it. He brings them deliverance from their own sin and condemnation.
And he calls them to be partners of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, himself and the Father and the Holy Spirit, in living according to the values of the Kingdom, anticipating the full coming of the Kingdom, and inviting others to do the same.
Ruth Perry (27:39)
Amen.
Scott Harris (27:40)
That’s just off the top of my head.
Ruth Perry (27:42)
Wow, that’s beautiful. I did add that book to my wish list when you posted about it, and I got some birthday money this week, so I’ll be sure to order that and read that. That’s beautiful.
Scott Harris (27:52)
And in case it’s worth it for your listeners, it’s been out for a while and at least on that one really main merchant that sells things online that you can get almost anything from, it’s at a really low price. I think they must have had a stock build up in the lowest price. The price is low. You can also get it really inexpensively as a used book. And Ruth, let me give you some advice. If you ever want to go public with communicating with others, I invite you to use the word kingdom in what, you know, if you blog or do some Facebooking or if you do a podcast, I recommend the word kingdom to you because God’s kingdom is beautiful. You know, free of charge. I’ll give that to you.
Ruth Perry (28:40)
Thank you, Scott. Thank you. I love that. Yeah, I wonder about the people who are opposed to the word kingdom.
Scott Harris (28:47)
There’s more than one reason, yeah.
Ruth Perry (28:49)
Yeah, I mean I recognize the reason, but I think personally I am okay using it.
Scott Harris (28:55)
Yeah. and we could just… Yes. Yes. And if you want, can use an actually much somewhat more provocative term. In Scott McKnight’s really literal New Testament translation called the Second Testament, he calls it Empire. So if you don’t like Kingdom of God, you can talk about God’s Empire if you want.
Ruth Perry (28:55)
It’s straight from the mouth of Jesus, so…
Scott Harris (29:22)
The idea is it’s a big deal and it is the one true empire, it’s the one true kingdom. There are plenty of other things. I understand if people have issues and I understand that this part of the world doesn’t have much value for kings and queens, but it’s a useful term if it points to the king. If the king is the lamb who was slain, the lamb of revelation, that’s…the kind of kingdom I want to be in.
Ruth Perry (29:51)
Praise God. That was my next question for you, Scott. What do you feel like your dream for the church would be? How would the church be like the kingdom of God on earth as it is in heaven if we were really following the way of Jesus?
Scott Harris (30:06)
What an excellent question. I don’t have a recipe, I just have bits and pieces. One, to say more briefly what I said at length earlier, the church needs to be about helping individuals and communities together to follow Jesus.
I want to qualify that in so many ways and use terms like inappropriate ways in their particular context, but may the church and may the churches be about the business of helping people in communities to follow Jesus. Second, my dream for the church or the churches is that they would be global churches. They would have an ongoing, interacting relationship.
and conversation and knowledge of other Christians, other churches around the world and other traditions of Christianity in their own context or around the world. I think my dream for the church is that the church or the churches would keep the top priorities the top priorities and by the top priorities I just go straight to this guy who said the first commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. And in the Gospel of Matthew, the second commandment is very similar to the first commandment, Jesus says, and it is to love your neighbor as yourself. So here is an abbreviation that I might throw out there. It’s an intentionally provocative abbreviation.
Maybe I’ll use it more, maybe I’ll never use it again, but I want to promote, and I want churches to promote, LBGAN Christianity. LBGAN Christianity is Christianity that emphasizes loving both God and neighbor. Some Christian traditions emphasize the love of neighbor to in a way that kind of keeps God eclipsed a little bit. Some church traditions emphasize the love of God and the love of neighbor is this optional add-on that you can choose to do or not choose to do. My dream for the church is to emphasize both loving God and loving neighbor.
Ruth Perry (32:20)
I love that Scott, that’s perfect. And thank you for your example of loving your neighbors. You’re not someone who just gives thoughts and prayers, you’re someone who always follows up with action and care and intentionality. And you’ve just been a really inspiring ⁓ example to me and countless others, I’m sure. And so I appreciate that about you and keep on keeping on because you are making a difference. And you’re really wonderful at articulating good news about Jesus Christ, Scott.
Scott Harris (32:44)
You’re so kind. Same Ruth, same. Thank you for your partnership in articulating the good news about Jesus. I am challenged and encouraged by you even though I can’t keep up with all of the content you put out. Now that you’re doing podcasting, it’ll make it even harder for me to keep up with the content you put out, but I really appreciate it.
Ruth Perry (33:11)
I appreciate, anytime you have any advice or correction or you think I’ve gone too far and I’m not loving my neighbors well, I trust your voice and I would welcome you as a friend to please let me know because I know, I mean, it’s, get, what I find my weakness is that I get caught up in the reaction, like the need to react.
And what I want to do is I want to continue to grow and be challenged to follow the ways of Jesus Christ fully. And I know he was not reactionary person. And then that’s a temptation of social media and being online. think for me, this podcast endeavor is kind of, I feel a lot of imposter syndrome and inadequacy about doing it, but that’s one of the things I’m trying to overcome as a Christian woman is the need to be perfect.
Like I know I’m going to mess up and over speak and I’m going to over share at times and I’m going to react. And so what I want to have is a willingness to learn and receive correction and be humble and apologize when that happens, but to continue to just learn in public. Cause that’s what I can’t remember when I started my page, but that’s the best thing that’s happened is that I’ve continued to learn and grow and change my mind about things. And it’s overall, I’d say it’s been a neat experience for me because I’ve met people like you.
Scott Harris (34:29)
It is a total joy to see you doing what you do and now doing a podcast. May God give you wisdom and energy.
Ruth Perry (34:38)
Thank you.
Scott Harris (34:39)
in the days, weeks, months and years ahead.
Ruth Perry (34:43)
Thank you, Scott. God bless you. All right. Thank you. Bye.
Scott Harris (34:45)
Talk to you soon, Ruth. Keep up the good work. Bye.
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Ruth Perry
Becky Buck
The Beautiful Kingdom Builders 